Liz and Anika talk about Kes, a character we loved more than Voyager's writers did.

  • Kes did not even get an entry in her own right in the Voyager character bible
  • We swore we weren't going to use Kes's episode to talk about Neelix, but seriously: why is Neelix?
  • In fact, why are all Kes's stories about men? 
  • Anika's home for wayward narratives
  • How Soji is Kes 2.0
  • Everyone is wrong about Elogium except Liz (okay, and Anika)
  • We had to cut a long discussion about how great Tuvok is because THIS IS NOT AN EPISODE ABOUT THE MEN IN KES'S LIFE
  • Any situation which can be compared with the end of Breaking Dawn is probably bad
  • Fury hits REALLY differently now we know more about Lien's departure
  • COSTUMING, including our '90s aesthetics and a terrible quote from costumer Robert Blackman

Episodes to watch: 

  • Elogium (an episode about Neelix deciding if he's ready for Kes to have a baby)
  • Cold Fire (an episode about a guy recruiting Kes for his cult)
  • Warlord (a man possesses Kes's body)
  • Darkling (the Doctor is very concerned about Kes falling in love)
  • Before and After (it's actually about Kes! Just don't think too much about Ocampa and human co-existence…)
  • The Gift (an episode about Seven of Nine where Kes decides it's time to leave Voyager)
  • Fury (but don't feel like you actually have to watch it to listen to this episode, Liz certainly didn't bother)

Liz and Anika get together to discuss the news, trailers and outfits from Star Trek Day, 8 September 2021, including...

  • We have concerns about the sidelining of female characters in Prodigy
  • How will Long Janeway be changed by her time with the kids?
  • The all-male Prodigy panel was followed by the Discovery panel, which featured no heterosexuals whatsoever
  • An ugly incident of homophobic abuse at the event
  • The Strange New Worlds characters
  • Christine Chapel's backstory: any situation that involves the phrase "multiple sexy robots" is going to be regrettable
  • Anika has a lot of feelings about the trend of taking male villains and reinventing them as women
  • Despite all the evidence that this is a bad idea, ie, season 1 of Star Trek: Picard, we are very excited for season 2 of Star Trek: Picard
  • We were wholly unmoved by the "Legacy" section of the event
  • People we love: Mary Chieffo, Jolene Blalock
  • We are here to defend the red carpet hosts!

It's the episode where we agree that, for all our mixed feelings about his father, Rod Roddenberry seems like a good egg.

Anika and Liz check in on season 2 of Star Trek: Lower Decks. And ... maybe it isn't for us? And that's okay!

Along the way, we talk about:

  • Walking the line between responding to fans versus pandering
  • We have feelings about the depiction of Orion women in Lower Decks … and, in fairness, most of Trek
  • We have even stronger feelings about the Ferengi here. "Why???" is a feeling, right?
  • We're also not into the Pakleds!
  • This remains a Beckett Mariner stan podcast
  • Liz is still lukewarm on Boimler, but Anika finds him charming and appreciates the meta genius of making him a Tom Paris fan
  • Where are the NGOs in the Star Trek universe?
  • We talk about Kai Winn for a while because we love her

It's the episode where we had to cut out a twenty-minute chat about police procedurals because not even we could pretend it was on topic!

Anika and Liz sit down to discuss DS9's "Past Tense". It's one of those episodes where we go, "This is really good!" and then talk about its problems for an hour.

  • Everyone knows "Past Tense" is a great two-parter, but what our theory presupposes is … maybe it's deeply flawed?
  • But seriously, "This is a great episode" is the beginning, not the end, of the conversation
  • The great man theory of fake history
  • The neoliberalism of DS9
  • Anika's big Reagan rant finally makes it through editing into an episode!
  • Empathy versus apathy
  • This is a really bad episode for Liz to have a total mental blank around the word "complicit" (don't worry, the long pauses are edited out)
  • The outstanding costume and set design

It's the episode where we go, "Has this just aged, like, really badly?"

Anika once said she had no interest in watching The Animated Series ... yet here we are, discussing "Yesteryear"!

  • We may be a Star Trek podcast, but we're a Star Trek podcast with a lot of Loki feels
  • (Seriously, this episode includes big spoilers for Loki and a big-ish spoiler for WandaVision)
  • Children's media before stranger-danger was invented
  • Abolish the time police 
  • Ethical time travel
  • We made it to the 30 minute mark before declaring Sarek THE WORST
  • Where's Michael in the Yesteryear timeline? 
  • Okay, now imagine if Sarek adopted Loki…
  • So Spock loses a pet, and he can choose to forego emotion for the rest of his life, but the rest of us just have to deal with our feelings? Unfair!

It's the episode where we wish the tiny Vulcan children would put some clothes on!

81. Super Probbo

Liz and Anika discuss shipping in Star Trek: The Next Generation -- at least until Liz suddenly realises she's messed up her calendar and has to flee to an appointment.

We are very good at this whole podcasting business.

  • Social media: it's good, actually
  • "I stayed to watch, and there was something very important that she had to tell Jean-Luc, and I was like, 'Oh my gosh, she loves him!' And 30 years later, here I am."
  • Liz's friend Lauren shares their opinions as a first-time TNG viewer
  • Early widowhood probably wasn't great for Beverly's sex life
  • Is anyone out there shipping Geordi/Leah Brahms?
  • Riker/Troi, a pairing which somehow achieved perfection after the series ended
  • Why are there MULTIPLE incidents where consensual encounters between Riker and Troi are hijacked by telepathic rapists? How did that happen? 
  • "Peter David is … problematic."
  • Deanna/Worf: the very best end of series random relationship
  • How Worf is like Kylo Ren
  • Picard/Ro Laren shippers: there are dozens of us
  • Is Picard demisexual?

Content notes:

We get a little more explicit than usual in this episode, particularly when it comes to the logistics of sex with Klingons. And there is discussion of sexual assault from 24 minutes to 26:23.

Sound notes:

Despite doing every single thing normally, there are a few points where there's a hissing noise behind Liz if Anika's track is muted. For that reason, we have a bit more overtalk than usual.

Anika and Liz watch the TOS episode "Is There In Truth No Beauty". And wow, we have a LOT to discuss:

  • Liz attempts to summarise the episode and we learn an important lesson about taking notes
  • A Medusan character in Prodigy
  • As a story about disability, this is … interesting. There's a lot to unpack. Including Kollos, because he lives in a box
  • We only want the best for Miranda Jones
  • "Both the Spock stuff and the Miranda stuff are actually all about how you present yourself versus who you are to yourself."
  • Telepathy and mental health professionals in Gene Roddenberry's future
  • Human telepathy in SF generally and Star Trek in particular
  • #releasethesenenskycut
  • Assistive technology but make it fashion
  • Anika's Scotty impression
  • Infinite Cash in Gene Roddenberry's Pocket


Anika and Liz take a trip back to 1995 and the first three stories in the Talking Stick/Circle fic series by Macedon and Peg Robinson, and discuss: 

  • Usenet memories
  • Decolonising Star Trek
  • Chakotay, the significance of a Native American writer handling a Native American character, and the … notable lack thereof in the show itself
  • Another round of religion in Star Trek
  • “People need to understand that Chakotay/Seven was not endgame.”
  • Fandom, homophobia and het that's not heteronormative

It's the episode where we look back and go, "Oh, YIKES."


78. Space Benghazi

Liz and Anika watch an episode of Star Trek: Continues, and just because it's not canon doesn't mean we aren't going to waaaaaay overthink it!

  • we are maybe the wrong audience for a loving tribute to The Original Series
  • a loving recreation of a ‘60s aesthetic … that ends when women sit in the hair and make-up chair
  • no one needed an explanation for “Turnabout Intruder”
  • imagine a metaphor for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign … but with Spock as Trump
  • “Canon should be elastic. Canon should not be a rigid line. Ever.”
  • Dr McKennah, the major original character in this series — she’s a total Mary Sue and we love her

It's the episode where Anika says, "He's doing a Chekov accent, not a Russian accent," and we're not entirely sure if that's good or bad.

We follow up our mothers-in-Trek episode by looking at ... dads! And, guys, there are so many terrible fathers in Star Trek. So. Many.

  • Bonus points to the Hansens, where BOTH parents are terriblel
  • Digressions: that careful balance where you don’t want to give up your whole life because you have a child, but also maybe you shouldn’t take that child into Borg space??????
  • Sisko, single fatherhood and parenting goals.
  • Rom, DS9’s other Good Dad.
  • O’Brien, a better dad in TNG than DS9 (brief digression: why Keiko and Miles really ought to consider divorce).
  • Worf. Just … Worf.
  • In defence of Kirk.
  • Data is a good dad. Soong and Maddox: not so much.
  • Our Azetbur headcanons are approximately on topic!
  • The L’Rell/Tuvok shipping is not, but that isn’t going to stop us.

We came to drink tea and make fun of Sarek ... and we're all out of tea.

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